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  • The title of the 6th and final book in The Gathering Darkness has been announced! What do you all think it could be about?

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    • My guess is, them having to fight... the traitor, obviously, maybe the wolves in The Exile's Journey, or the Leashed Dogs that are also speculated to be in the upcoming book. All I know is, I'm kind of dreading it as it seems that will be the very last book in the whole series, and I'd hate for it to end!

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    • That's my worry too, I hope it's the final battle against all the enemies in TGD. If it is the last indeed, we must convince the authors to write more!

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    • I'm not ready to see such a good series end. I love these books so much!

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    • Let's stay positive. Survivors seems to sell well, so hopefully they aren't going to end it anytime soon!

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    • Man, I just hope that Survivors does not end I really like this series.

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    • I know right!! It is so good. I just wish June would hurry up for TEJ.

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    • Yeah! Why are the days so long? I think maybe it will be against thr Fear dog? Maybe? 

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      That's my worry too, I hope it's the final battle against all the enemies in TGD. If it is the last indeed, we must convince the authors to write more!

      If they stop writing Survivors, I'm going to be depressed for like, a week.

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    • Dawn the Golden Retriever wrote: Yeah! Why are the days so long? I think maybe it will be against thr Fear dog? Maybe? 

      We still aren't sure about who the killer is, but I think the Fear-dog is real.

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    • Kona1377 wrote:

      CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      That's my worry too, I hope it's the final battle against all the enemies in TGD. If it is the last indeed, we must convince the authors to write more!

      If they stop writing Survivors, I'm going to be depressed for like, a week.

      Me too! Let's hope then that they write a third series.

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    • I hope they wrote a new series, and the protagonist would either be one of Lucky's pups or Bella's pups.

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    • Write*

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    • What about if storm has puppies?

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    • awwwww, i have no idea who her mate would be

      anyone wanna do this?

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    • Maybe Rake or Woody, since they seem to be more in her age range, or Twitch, or Beetle, though I wouldn't say she has much chemistry with any of them. Mist likely I think she will choose a new dig to be her mate, or a wolf.

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    • excuse my language but hell no. I want storm to have a mate who never treated her like crap and is a nice dog. I wouldn't mind beetle though, 

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    • I think Storm needs a dog who will balance nicely with her temper and rockheadedness, a small sweet dog like Whisper wouldn't be able to do that, and I don't think Beetle would, either. Beetle just doesn't seem all that interested in Storm, and is a little too immature for her. Those are just my opinions, though.

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    • It's either twitch or a new dog. I can't think of anyone else who meets those requirements . But twitch is more of a father figure.
      
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    • Maybe some sort of loner or something will appear and suit her? I always felt like Arrow fit well with her, but more like a brother I guess. Besides, he ran away with Bella.

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    • I like Arrow and Bella too much lol. But there are going to be some new dogs in the new book I've heard, so maybe she will connect with one of them.

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    • Yes!!! Arrow is that awkward father who doesn't know how to make a life for his soon-to-be-born pups. Bella is that anxious mother-to-be who will do whatever her mate wants to. I know she would follow Arrow to the moon and back.

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    • I'm so excited to see what the pups look like. Fierce-Dog and Sheltie-Retriever mixes sound interesting...

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    • I know, I really hope we get to see them in either the next book or the one after that!

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    • I feel like the Gathering Darkness Arc is coming to an end to quickly! I really wonder if they will continue the series, and if they will, from who's point of view the next series will be from?

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    • I think the most likely protagonist if this hypothetical third series would be one of Lucky's pups or one of Bella's pups.

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    • Applebaby12 wrote:
      I think the most likely protagonist if this hypothetical third series would be one of Lucky's pups or one of Bella's pups.

      I think that it will either be:

      1) Nibble since in Darkness Falls, Storm was featured as a pup on the cover and then the Gathering Darkness is from her point of view, so why not Nibble since she was featured on the cover of Into the Shadows.

      2) Tiny since Storm seems to be very protective of her. Also, Sweet's pups have been playing a large role in the series and I don't think Bella's pups will have as large of a role as they do in just two books.

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    • I agree, and I'd love to see Tiny as the main character. It's always fun rooting for an underdog.

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    • One thing that always worries me is that Lucky may die in one of these books. He is quite older than a lot of the dogs, and while I don't like him much in the more recent books, he is still special to me.

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    • I honestly just really hope that Storm can find Bella, Arrow, and their pups and that they're not dead!

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    • I hope Lucky doesn't die. After all he'd been through, after the Big Growl. Though he is younger than Moon, Mickey, probably Snap  (I like to think Mickey and Snap are similar in age, anyway.)

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    • Yeah, too much would make it weird.

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    • SPOILER: Bella dies giving birth. Just Kidding, BUT, I would not be surprised if that happened though, I can see Bella dying because the female dogs outnumber the males by like 10. I think that Lucky is older than Mickey and Snap.

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    • I hope not. I like bella

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    • Awww but that would be sad!!!!! I think that Bella and Arrow should have a life with their pups.

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    • In A Hidden Enemy, Lucky nudges Mickey away from a muddy puddle, and the narrator refers to him as "the older dog." "Lucky nudged the older dog away from the puddle." Or something.

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    • Wow, I know Bruno was old, but I thought of Mickey as a younger dog than Lucky. I hate that in that sentence, it makes Mickey seem like he isn't capable of caring for himself. Also, in RMR *SPOILERS*: When Lucky and some of the pack are hunting, they raid a longpaw spoil-box, I felt like they ruined that whole scene. When it says something like 'Storm wondered what this scrap of longpaw food was, she asked Lucky, and he replied, "It's a sandwich!" and he was all hyper and stuff. First of all, Lucky is NEVER that hyper, second of all, even as a Lone Dog, he didn't exactly know the name of the food, and here he says "Sandwich!" Pretty messed up, in my opinion.

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    • THERE'S RICE!!! WTH CHASE!!!

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    • It seemed strange and kind of dragged out. WHY would these longpaws throw away so much food? It kind of felt like the writers were tired of all the gloominess and we're like, "hey, let's just make the characters eat lots of food." And I guess Lucky might have been so hyper because the adrenaline- I wouldn't be super calm, either, but it was kind of odd.

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    • Humans are very wasteful. 1/3 of the food we make never gets eaten by us. If you look at the facts it actually makes sense there is a lot of food, but I agree the scene was a bit dragged out. 

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    • It was rather long, but the way they worded it was what annoyed me the most.

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    • Of course, but they make it out like a dumpster is just full of tasty food. And it's not like it's a city full of longpaws. Anyway, I don't know why they had to have Lucky announce what food is what the whole time. "Look! Cheese! Look! Chicken! Look! Sandwich!"

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    • Yeah, Lucky doesn't know THAT many longpaw words. He never mentioned it as a sandwich in TEC or anything. I guess it was author change at that scene or something.

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    • I liked the Wild Pack a lot in the 1st series but, What are they battling? If it's called the final battle, Who are they fighting? Wolves, Cayotes, Foxes? Wild Pack vs Storm and Wolves I think, Or Storm, Arrow, and Bella VS an unamed threat. That would be bad. All our questions will be answered by TEJ.

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    • Oh my goodness gracious, OMG!!!!!!I just can't wait until TEJ comes out! Two more months!! AAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!

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    • IKR!!!!! I can hardly wait!!!!!!!!

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    • //dies of suspense//

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    • Eh, this is probrably the Survivors book I am least excited about. "The Exile's Journey"? The description of the book says Storm must face challenges to find Arrow and Bella. Not as pumped, but I will most certianly read it.

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    • I loved Warriors when I first started reading it, but compared to Survivors, it's dry reading. There is no humor and the action is bland, but I'm in only the third series, and so far it's the dumbest. I think Survivors is so much better, you really feel for the characters, and the suspense on who the killer is is amazing.

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      I loved Warriors when I first started reading it, but compared to Survivors, it's dry reading. There is no humor and the action is bland, but I'm in only the third series, and so far it's the dumbest. I think Survivors is so much better, you really feel for the characters, and the suspense on who the killer is is amazing.

      I first found Seekers at my library and thought at first that it was the best series ever. But then I got curious and borrowed Storm of Dogs as well as a Warriors book. I immediately fell in love with Survivors and felt what Storm felt and went through very deeply. I read a little bit of the Warriors book, but compared with Survivors, it is nothing.

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    • I've never read Seekers because I don't like bears so I didn't pick it up.

      Bravelands also seems strange. I think if it was JUST about lions maybe, but Warriors is about cats so too close I guess. I want the Erins to write a series on horses.

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    • Dont read Bravelands. If you've seen Lion King, Its exactly that. No Joke! It is the exact same thing!

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    • Wow, really? That's odd that the Erins would do that.

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    • I got the book on Overdrive and it seems like it should be a little different. There's an elephant on the cover, and I don't recall a a main character elephant in TLK.

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      I've never read Seekers because I don't like bears so I didn't pick it up.

      Bravelands also seems strange. I think if it was JUST about lions maybe, but Warriors is about cats so too close I guess. I want the Erins to write a series on horses.

      If you want a series about horses, then I've heard of a trilogy by Kathryn Lasky called Horses of the Dawn.

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    • Quick question, has anyone here read Wolves of the Beyond by Kathryn Lasky or Foxcraft by Inbali Iserles? I know the question is off topic.

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    • Kona, yes actually! I have read Horses of the Dawn, but I was extremely disappointed. It's so much gorier than Survivors and Warriors put together. I have read Owls of Ga'hoole by Kathryn Lasky, but never Wolves of the beyond. I'll have to see if my library has it. I want to read Foxcraft! I'm hoping my library has it as well.

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      Kona, yes actually! I have read Horses of the Dawn, but I was extremely disappointed. It's so much gorier than Survivors and Warriors put together. I have read Owls of Ga'hoole by Kathryn Lasky, but never Wolves of the beyond. I'll have to see if my library has it. I want to read Foxcraft! I'm hoping my library has it as well.

      When I first saw "owl" in your username, I immediately thought about Owls of Ga'hoole! 

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    • LOL! My username is actually of a wolf OC of mine named Owl, which is what my profile picture is of.

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    • That's cool!

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    • Thank you!

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl
      CarouselcrazyOwl removed this reply because:
      It has no relevance.
      13:18, May 1, 2018
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    • Go to "Forums", flick "General Discussion" (or whichever option fits your needs), and there should be an option to start a new discussion.

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    • Thank you!

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      One thing that always worries me is that Lucky may die in one of these books. He is quite older than a lot of the dogs, and while I don't like him much in the more recent books, he is still special to me.

      thst worries me too

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    • Kona1377 wrote:
      Quick question, has anyone here read Wolves of the Beyond by Kathryn Lasky or Foxcraft by Inbali Iserles? I know the question is off topic.

      I heard of foxcraft

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    • AHEM.....Survivors The Exiles Journey comes out in 26 days!!!!!!!!  WHO'S EXCITED!!!!!!!! ARE YOU GUYS EXCITED OR WHAT?! SHOW ME SOME EXCITEMENT HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!🙋😀😁😂😊😃😄😅😆😳😜😋😝😛

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    • Me!!! 🙋 But when it does come out, I'll have to avoid spoilers because I'm probably gonna get it for my birthday (in early July)! Do you think they'll announce the traitor in TEJ? I doubt it, since Storm won't be with the Wild Pack, but maybe her and Bella and Arrow (and maybe a few newcomers, since I've heard that there'll be new Leashed Dogs introduced in this book) will return to the Pack only for the traitor to announce their identity (in anger that Arrow and Storm are back, perhaps) and it'll set up for the next book, ending on a cliffhanger?

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    • OMG I thought it was like June 16 or 17. UGH ERINS WHY YOU BE DOING THIS?! I'm planning on holding it at my library early because it's on order and last time I waited 6 MONTHS to read RMR and I AM NOT letting it happen again.

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    • Just like I did for every other book, I am going to force and beg my parents to take me to the bookstore on the day it comes out and then read it all on the same day.

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    • LOL! I read RMR on vacay every chance I got and let me tell you, I actually cried when *SPOILERS* Bruno died. *END OF SPOILERS* I like saving it, to build the suspense. I'm thinking of checking sometime this week if it is even possible to hold it or I have to wait until they have it and be quick about holding it.

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    • Like I mentioned, I am the complete opposite! I get my hands on the book as soon as Just can and then read all of it at once. Once I finish, theories and predictions are what occupy my free time for at least a month after the book comes out.

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    • Same! I'm a pretty fast reader and with Survivors, a series I'm very in to (and doesn't have very many pages anyway,) I can get done in just a day or two. I remember reaching the end of RMR by 6th period (I'd gotten the book at the start of the day) and being surprised that it was finished. I need more!!!

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    • Who's your favorite character?

      As you've most likely guessed, mine is Storm. 

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    • Hmm... I liked Whisper, and I really love Bella in the new series (not so much in the first. I hated her for lying to Lucky.) Lucky was a well-written character in the first series. Sweet... I don't like how she magically changed at the drop of a hat. In TEC she was frightened and jumpy, and then in AHE she was completely different. (Yes, I have read Sweet's Journey. She was nothing like how she was in TEC, even at the start of the book.) She went from being a naive, almost puppish dog to an adult-like Beta. Wow, didn't mean to turn this into a Sweet rant. I also liked Twitch jn the second book, but now he's just... eh. I just don't have a favorite.

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    • Bella's my all time favorite. I don't recall when I started liking her, but I don't think my opinion has shifted since.

      By the way, my fellow fans, the sample for The Exile's Journey is out on Kobo: https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/survivors-the-gathering-darkness-5-the-exile-s-journey.

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    • Omg you're a lifesaver! Tysm!!!

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    • Ahhh, it's so sad to see Storm all alone! It ends at such an abrupt point, though. I can't wait until it's out!!!

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    • hello

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    • so guys you want some survivors content click at the name boldy ballinger he is an amazing youtuber who does survivor theories and talks he is doing them for the whole summer every week you'll love him!!!


      Bolby Ballinger

      Published on Jun 7, 2018

      SUBSCRIBE 64

      Survivors is finally back and there will be more to come. This time I go over the events of Red Moon Rising and how they can point us towards who the killer is.

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    • Flight222 wrote:
      Bella's my all time favorite. I don't recall when I started liking her, but I don't think my opinion has shifted since.

      By the way, my fellow fans, the sample for The Exile's Journey is out on Kobo: https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/survivors-the-gathering-darkness-5-the-exile-s-journey.

      OMG!!!!!!!!!! YES! THSNK YOU SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    • I didn't really read it because I prefer the actual book in my hands and a bed and a plush to snuggle for the intense moments, but it looks good!!!! I held TEJ at my library and I was THE FIRST to hold it!!! I get it first mwahahaaaaa :) I'm planning on posting a thread about TEJ after I read it. My favorite character is probably Sunshine - it was really interesting to see her development into a member of the Wild Pack. I do like Twitch too though, he is such a fatherly figure and so sweet. Lucky before he changed. Then I like Arrow. He was that character that you just need to know more about. I did sort of like Blade too. She was my favorite villain. Then I like more but those are my fave dogs.

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    • Wait, it's out!? I thought it was going to be released on June 21st!!

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    • youre lybrary has it how and why?!?!?!

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    • It's not even out? How???

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    • LUCKY!!!!! HOW though!? Doesn't it come out on the 26th???

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    • NO!!! It's not out LOL! My library ordered it, and if I look at the Survivors books, it says ON ORDER. I mean I was able to hold it so when it arrives at the library I get it first. Hope that makes sense LOL!

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    • OHHH! I thought you meant you held it like, physically! Thank you for clearing it up lol, I was really confused for a second!

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    • Ha ha! Okay, that makes sense!

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    • Of course!! Glad you understand :) I see now where you could be confused LOL!

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    • AHEM. Everybody, the official sample for The Exile's Journey is out on the survivors website. It is worth reading as it is longer than the one on Kobo. ALSO, one more week until The Exile's Journey comes out!! You guys better be excited!

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    • Can you link it? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

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    • Nevermind, I found it! Ohhh, now I'm really excited!!!

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    • Good for you!

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    • It's on http://www.warriorcats.com/ Just click the Survivors section and look for it! 6 MORE DAYS UNTIL IT COMES OUT EEEEEEEKKKKKKKKK!!!

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      It's on http://www.warriorcats.com/ Just click the Survivors section and look for it! 6 MORE DAYS UNTIL IT COMES OUT EEEEEEEKKKKKKKKK!!!

      I KNOW RIGHT?! When it comes out I'm going to be like Tarzan. Me: Tarzan yell

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    • I hope that TFB will be the last book. Let me explain why.

      It's all very well and nice for new pups to take on a perspective, or a new dog overall, but I fear this series will just be a run-on series like warriors. They announced that after this series that they're finishing now, there will be another one. Warriors was great. I loved the first-fourth series, as well as Dawn of the Clans. It was nice to see a fresh perspective. But now they're bringing SkyClan back, and now that Darktail's gone, there isn't even much of a threat left at all. It might be aa pretty abrupt ending if the entire series is finished in TEJ and TFB, so maybe another arc after this one, but it can't go on forever.

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    • I agree. Maybe not another arc, but perhaps some more super editions? I'd love to see what the Fierce Dog Pack was like before the Big Growl- from either Blade's or Arrow's perspective. I also am really interested to know what Terror's deal is. And maybe a book detailing Whine's journeys after being exiled? Idk, I feel like there's still room for more Survivors content without another series.

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    • Super Editions is a neat idea. What happened to Whine? What about Arrow's sister and his life growing up? What about Blade as a mother?

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    • I am really interested about Storm's mother Morningstar and what she was like. I think that would make a good novella or super edition.

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    • I think Morningstar had some good in her. We know that Blade and Morningstar fought, and I believe that it was because she refused to let her Alpha kill her pups. Of course, some may argue that it's just maternal instincts, but Blade was able to kill her son.

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    • Blade killed her son because she put her love aside and used her head. I think Morningstar must have been an okay mother. I'd love to learn more about her.

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    • I actually had an idea about writing a short fan story about Morningstar and her choice between her pups and Blade, and how she is devastated that Blade announces they must be killed. She convinces Blade to let them live until they open their eyes and can see the world, stating that it isn't fair they're killed without being able to know they are alive. Eventually they open their eyes and tried to keep it secret while Blade gives birth to her pup, but Blade finds out and after she kills her son they fight, ending in Morningstar's death. It ends from Blade's point of view, deciding to let the pups starve slowly as punishment for their uncooperative mother and they abandon the garden.

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    • Great idea Apple!!! I think Super Editions, Field Guides, and more Novellas (maybe even mangas!) Would help give out more info and are very fun. I was actually thinking about writing a blog post story about how Lucky reacts when Storm leaves the pack.

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    • You should do it! I'd read it!

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    • I just posted it to my blog post now!

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    • How do you start a blog post, and how can I see it? I was thinking about just doing mine on a forum.

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    • Yours was really good! I decided to post mine on a forum since I'm more used to it. I like that you filled in what Lucky and Sweet were discussing in RMR.

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    • Thank you! I really appreciate it! It's been a few months since I've read RMR so I'm happy I remembered what Sweet and Lucky were discussing. I will check out yours :)

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    • Thanks! I'm actually probably gonna make a blog post, to finish the story later.

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    • Oh alright! And I also have some drawings on my blog post as well, if you're interested :)

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    • I read both of your stories and I think they're really good!  Are you guys going to continue them?

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    • I don't know about CarouselcrazyOwl but I am going to finish it tomorrow! And thank you, it means a lot!

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    • No problem!

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    • I'm planning on writing more, maybe even a chapter story, but I don't have any ideas yet. Any suggestions?

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    • You could wrote what goes on in the Pack now that Storm is away!

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    • Write*

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    • I like that idea!! I was also planning on doing a couple Warrior cats stories too, because Warriors Wiki doesn't have many chats or anything.

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    • THE EXILE'S JOURNEY COMES OUT TOMORROW!!!!! Me right now

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      • hops on thread* it came out today!!!!!!!!!!!!! I woke up, hopped on my laptop, and ordered it!! AND IT'S COMING ON THURSDAY!!!! SCREECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    • Kona LOL!!! Me too! I'm waiting for the library to send me a notification that they got TEJ in, and I'm gonna drop everything and go!!! CARS GET OUT OF MY WAY BECAUSE I'M NOT GOING TO STOP XD!! (I'm only kidding)

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    • OMYGODOMYGODOMYGODOMYGODOMYGOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SCREECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't wait until I can go to the store and get it!!!!!!!!!!!!! SCREECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    • I have to wait until July for my birthday to get it. I'm super excited though!!!

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    • I read it in like 5 hours. I couldnt put it down

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    • I PUT IT ON HOLD AND WILL GOT TO THE STORE AS SOON AS I CAN!! SCREECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    • Cdg44 wrote:
      I read it in like 5 hours. I couldnt put it down

      I think the fastest it took me to read a Survivors book, was with Red Moon Rising, and it took me between 1 hour and 30 minutes to 2 hours.

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    • I went to my library yesterday. I am the first to hold it, so as soon as they receive it I can read it!! I can hardly wait!! I prefer letting the book last a while. After each chapter in a new book I like to think it over for a bit.

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    • The final battle is the final book of survivors. I'm sad

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    • Cdg44 wrote:
      The final battle is the final book of survivors. I'm sad

      Wait.......WHAT?! Also.........I bought the book yesterday, but it was late when I bought it, so my parents forced me to leave it for today. I finished it and it is SO GOOD!!!!!!! SCREECH!!!!!!!!!!! Spoiler: I feel so bad for Bella and Arrow about Tufty! I literally felt like crying when I read that part!

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    • Cdg44
      Cdg44 removed this reply because:
      Spoiler
      00:45, June 28, 2018
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    • I've pretty much spoiled it all for myself by now, oops lol. But I'm happy that I know who the bad dog is.

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    • Cdg44
      Cdg44 removed this reply because:
      Spoiler
      00:44, June 28, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Applebaby12
      Applebaby12 removed this reply because:
      Spoilers
      00:26, June 28, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Shhh!! On this discussion we do not discuss TEJ until most of us have read it!! That way we can have time to read it

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    • Alright, I'll probably delete that last message. I realized it seemed a bit obvious.

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    • I love Storm, but I hate how they change her ears in every book. 

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    • I think it just depends on the position she's in. Like when she's looking up her ears seem bent to the side, and when she's in a neutral position or looking forward they look like normal floppy ears. Plus it could be body language, since dogs use their ears to communicate as well as tail and hackles. In the scenes where her ears are bent to the side it might me her listening better.

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    • I think she looks cuter when they're pricked up. I guess I never really thought of that. 

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    • In my opinion I personally like her ears flopped idk why. And I just finished TEJ and it is so good. I am very frustrated with the fact that hardly anyone believes storm. As mentioned in this thread, I an sad about tuff and how that turned out... I am though really happy because I was right about who the traitor dog was.

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      • Tuffy
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    • Same here, Jess! I totally called it...

      I think Storm looks cuter with her ears how they are on the cover of The Exile's Journey. They look... uncomfortable to me with them bent to the side. Idk why.

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    • I think Storm is cool in any pose. I love her torn ear

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    • Agreed, I just feel bad how she got her tournament ear though.

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      • torn
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    • Happy to see the Wild Pack, and a Major Twist! Super excited for TFB!!! Does it feature Lucky on the cover and Bella and her pups And Storm or Arrow? Anyway, is it gonna be Wild Pack vs the traitor or will the enemy have a pack like Blade?

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    • I think it's Lucky, Bella, Storm, and Nip and Scramble and possibly the golden deer far back.

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    • Hello! So I’m going to take a break on this wiki until after I read TEJ because there are too many spoilers EVERYWHERE, even on the forums not related to it. I will catch up on here after I recieve and read TEJ. Hope you understand!

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    • See you later! I hope you enjoy the book!

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    • Okay... so you know how the Golden Deer is on every cover, even though the deer is not extremely important in the series? Well I'm really excited to see the cover of TFB and to see if the Golden Deer is still on the cover. Idk... is the Golden Deer more important than it seems? Oh and maybe in TFB they will catch the deer and the pack will be blessed with luck and happiness, making it the last book in the series, because once ( or if) the deer is caught, there would technically be no point to continue the series. If TFB is the last book, than I hope the Erins will writers novellas and super editions for Survivors.

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    • It is confirmed to be the finale of the Survivors Series overall. I would hope they'd do Super Editions and more novellas, but Idk. I kind of hoped this would be the last one in the series, but I'm still sad to see it go. It's been a few good years.

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    • Storm-in-Rain wrote:
      It is confirmed to be the finale of the Survivors Series overall. I would hope they'd do Super Editions and more novellas, but Idk. I kind of hoped this would be the last one in the series, but I'm still sad to see it go. It's been a few good years.

      Sigh... I'll be sad to see it go too...

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    • But I'm glad it won't be stretched on forever like the Warriors Series. It will be a good ending, I hope. 

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    • How do u know this?

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    • If you go onto the final battle's page, it states that this is the "final book for the Survivors series overall". It also says "The final epic adventure is here!"

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    • I JUST FINISHED READING TEJ AND I"M IN SHOCK!!!



      SPOILERS: I CAN'T BELIEVE ITS BREEZE!!!!

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    • Well, I think everyone knows my stance on Breeze lol :p

      I'm more excited about Whine being back, tbh, and Bella's pups. I think the name Buddy is cute for him, and Scramble and Nip are so cute!

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    • Yeah but i actually cried during that scene. I really liked her.

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    • The art for Scramble and Nip is beautiful, but Lucky doesn't look at all like I thought he did. I guess he changed, though, in his looks since he's now a full Wild Dog.

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    • Wait... the cover for TFB came out?!

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    • Omg, the cover is absolutely beautiful!!

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    • I know! I'm so thrilled about it. And I'm really happy that we have a clear picture of Bella now, since the old one is pretty blurry and bleh. And the pups! They're SO CUTE!!

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    • Applebaby12 wrote:
      I know! I'm so thrilled about it. And I'm really happy that we have a clear picture of Bella now, since the old one is pretty blurry and bleh. And the pups! They're SO CUTE!!

      SCREECH!!!!! I'm so excited!!

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    • Well for a finale I think that maybe it means the end of the arc and not the series? I love Survivors and I don’t think it stretches on. The Erins really put effort in it more than Warriors

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote: Well for a finale I think that maybe it means the end of the arc and not the series? I love Survivors and I don’t think it stretches on. The Erins really put effort in it more than Warriors

      I hope so but it says the final epic adventure

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    • No, I think it's the end of the series. I wouldn't be surprised. There was so much more in the two arcs than in all of the Warriors Series. It's still going. I think they just had much more characterization since they had less characters, and it overall was just a much more in-depth series. I have to admit, I'm glad they're ending it.

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      Well for a finale I think that maybe it means the end of the arc and not the series? I love Survivors and I don’t think it stretches on. The Erins really put effort in it more than Warriors

      It seems like it will be the last. If you go to the page where it talks about the next book's events: (http://survivorsdogs.wikia.com/wiki/The_Final_Battle)      it mentions at the top that it's the last Survivors novel. Which I am pretty disappointed by, to be honest. Maybe they want to focus more on other series?

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    • Why??? Survivors is so good! The characters are amazing, the plot so well done, it can’t end!

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    • I'm pretty sure I've said this like 50 millio times, but I'm really hoping they write super editions for Survivors!

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    • I think it's just because I don't want them to stretch on forever. The characterization is amazing, the plot is amazing. But if they keep going, they're likely to add new characters, have way too many plot holes, like warriors. Eventually there just won't be enough action. I don't want to watch the Survivors Series die out.

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    • I see, but maybe one more arc, just so it feels complete. I’m still hoping they will write more though, or at least super editions and novellas or field guides.

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    • Yes. Unless we get some closure on some of the plot holes, it'll feel undone.

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    • I'm kind of hoping storm can find another dog she loves and have pups of her own, but maybe they just want to leave that up to the reader to imagine.

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    • Yes. I ship her with Thoughtful. Maybe a Super Edition on that?

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    • Yesss Thoughtful, Fading, and Peaceful are so cool!!

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    • I think Storm and Thoughtful are cute together

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    • I haven't read TEJ yet, but I know about Thoughtful and I think he'd be good with Storm. It'd be very interesting if she took a wolf as a mate. How do you think the Pack would react?

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    • I finally got the book and stayed up all night reading it LOL

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    • I'msurprised Breeze is the traitor. I thought it was the Fear-Dog.

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    • It kind of is the fear-dog though. Breeze is sort of like a mad prophet, making what the fear-dog wants to happen actually happen. But she never claimed to actually communicate with the fear-dog, so she might just want to do what she believes he'd want.

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    • Ok that makes sense :)

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    • Do u want potato Jingles and MMshell?

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    • I like to think she is a mad prophet, and maybe she was even secretly very close to Terror. This may be a wild theory, but perhaps Terror trained her in secret to be his successor at the forepaw of the Fear-Dog. 

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    • I haven’t finished TEJ but I’m almost sorta maybe there? I love it so far!

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    • Applebaby12 wrote:
      I like to think she is a mad prophet, and maybe she was even secretly very close to Terror. This may be a wild theory, but perhaps Terror trained her in secret to be his successor at the forepaw of the Fear-Dog. 

      I think if Terror actually wanted to train her then he would have told Breeze, and then she would have told Storm at the end of TEJ. As explained by Rake, she was like his Beta, but nothing more

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    • Mmshell1197 wrote:
      Applebaby12 wrote:
      I like to think she is a mad prophet, and maybe she was even secretly very close to Terror. This may be a wild theory, but perhaps Terror trained her in secret to be his successor at the forepaw of the Fear-Dog. 
      I think if Terror actually wanted to train her then he would have told Breeze, and then she would have told Storm at the end of TEJ. As explained by Rake, she was like his Beta, but nothing more

      I think that Breeze was secretly close to Terror, since she is so desperate to have revenge and avenge his death.

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    • Kona1377 wrote:
      Mmshell1197 wrote:
      Applebaby12 wrote:
      I like to think she is a mad prophet, and maybe she was even secretly very close to Terror. This may be a wild theory, but perhaps Terror trained her in secret to be his successor at the forepaw of the Fear-Dog. 
      I think if Terror actually wanted to train her then he would have told Breeze, and then she would have told Storm at the end of TEJ. As explained by Rake, she was like his Beta, but nothing more
      I think that Breeze was secretly close to Terror, since she is so desperate to have revenge and avenge his death.

      When she was talking to Storm at the end of TEJ, she explained that Terror was the only dog she knew who really understood the Fear-dog, and that's why she wanted revenge. She didn't mention caring about him any more than that, and I think she would have told Storm if she did, or there would have been some sort of emotional response from her that the author would have mentioned

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    • Mmshell1197 wrote:
      Kona1377 wrote:
      Mmshell1197 wrote:
      Applebaby12 wrote:
      I like to think she is a mad prophet, and maybe she was even secretly very close to Terror. This may be a wild theory, but perhaps Terror trained her in secret to be his successor at the forepaw of the Fear-Dog. 
      I think if Terror actually wanted to train her then he would have told Breeze, and then she would have told Storm at the end of TEJ. As explained by Rake, she was like his Beta, but nothing more
      I think that Breeze was secretly close to Terror, since she is so desperate to have revenge and avenge his death.
      When she was talking to Storm at the end of TEJ, she explained that Terror was the only dog she knew who really understood the Fear-dog, and that's why she wanted revenge. She didn't mention caring about him any more than that, and I think she would have told Storm if she did, or there would have been some sort of emotional response from her that the author would have mentioned

      True... I think you're right.

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    • ReikoMango
      ReikoMango removed this reply because:
      inappropiate
      19:09, July 10, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Milkysealz that is very inappropriate. I suggest you take that comment down please.

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    • They've been doing this on every thread they can find.

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    • Hi, I removed the comment and Milkysealz has been IP-banned. Luckily I came onto the wiki, but because we don't have very active admins, make sure you guys report any future vandalism/inappropiate behavior like this to the people at VSTF . They can ban any person universally on any wiki when you fill out a quick report to them. 

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    • Thank you!

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    • Please Delete is Comments in

      https://survivorsdogs.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:19360#365

      as well.

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    • No, thank you guys for making sure to reverse their edits and being incredibly mature about it!! I'm very sorry that this happened! 

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    • Thank you so much for handling it, and I think IP-banning is best since they threatened to keep making emails and new accounts... lol.

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    • Yep. When they mentioned multiple accounts, I had to IP-ban. Their ban will expire in a year, so hopefully, they'll be more mature by then. I suspect they were really young. And anytime! 

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    • Thank you so much Reiko! I haven't seen you in a long, long time. You showed up just in time, old friend.

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    • Yes thank you! I would have helped fix the issue but I was gone all day. I really appreciate your help

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    • I just got The Exile's Journey for my birthday, I'm reading it now!!!

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    • Happy birthday! Do you like it so far?

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    • Thank you, and yes! I'm at the part just after she meets Thoughtful and was looking at the dead tree.

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    • Thoughtful is so cute!! I like him a lot. I won’t spoil anything else for you then. Only issue is that the end is a cliffhanger, and TFB comes out next year..

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    • I know!!! So irritating... but hey, at least this book is really good!

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    • Applebaby12 wrote:
      I know!!! So irritating... but hey, at least this book is really good!

      I hope you enjoy the book! 

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    • It is my favorite book in the entire series!! I loved every minute of it.

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    • I got to the... Tufty part... oh man, that was sad. And I'm so angry that Peaceful was exiled from her Pack for two days! It'd be interesting if she joined Bella and Arrow's Pack.

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    • RIP Tufty.

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    • Yes poor Tufty.

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    • I thought it was good! Better than I thought.

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    • Yes, minus the cliffhanger.

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    • Yes the cliffhanger was the worst!

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      Yes the cliffhanger was the worst!

      C'mon Erin Hunter! Why the cliffhanger?! WHY?!

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    • Kona1377 wrote:
      CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      Yes the cliffhanger was the worst!
      C'mon Erin Hunter! Why the cliffhanger?! WHY?!

      We need it to keep us waiting for the final battle, I suppose.

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    • It comes out in November though! And who will Sweet choose, Storm or Breeze? I honestly think Storm but if Sweet chooses Breeze instead, I’ll be shocked.

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    • I'm SO angry about how Sweet treated Tiny. But yeah, I want her to choose Storm, but there's a pretty good chance that she'll choose Breeze instead. But Bella and Arrow did say they'd come for her if she was gone for a long while, so I think they'll show up and stand up for Storm.

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    • I really hope they show up. I think Moon, Sunshine, Twitch, and probably Mickey will stand up for Storm, too.

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    • Also Daisy I hope, and maybe Mickey could convince Snap? And Bella might get Lucky on her side. And Breeze would probably make a show of being so "good-hearted" that she doesn't want to harm Storm.

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    • Yes. I wonder if they will try to blind Storm? I hope not.

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    • I wonder who Sunshine was talking about when she said that she wasn't the only one who believed Storm?

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    • I think one of them is Moon. It said that when she looked at Breeze she shuddered, implying that she is starting to distrust Breeze, and Beetle and maybe Thorn (even though she did help keep Storm held down.) Daisy is a good friend of Sunshine and I think she trusts Storm, and Mickey, for obvious reasons.

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    • I think Twitch will, too.

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    • Yss, I forgot about Twitch! He's such a reasonable dog.

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    • I feel like someone I like, maybe Twitch or Arrow, will die.

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    • I love Twitch!! I hope he isn’t killed or Arrow! He has pups!

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    • I know. I love Arrow. I loved him even when they caught him. I ship him and Bella, and I see him and Storm as close friends.

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    • Arrow's speech to Tufty had me in tears... he seems like a good father, better than Lucky imo. Maybe it's just because he only has two pups, but even with his grief for his lost daughter him and Bella had time for Storm. Lucky and Sweet on the contrary don't seem to have time for any of their pups. They didn't listen to Tiny when she said she believed Storm, even though she was there for some of Breeze's schemes.

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    • No. Arrow was meant to be a father. He'd consider their opinions, no matter what he thinks. Lucky and Sweet ignore their pups because they are so hard-headed. I love Arrow. He and Storm are my favorites.

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    • Storm-in-Rain wrote:
      No. Arrow was meant to be a father. He'd consider their opinions, no matter what he thinks. Lucky and Sweet ignore their pups because they are so hard-headed. I love Arrow. He and Storm are my favorites.

      I know that this is very obvious and I probably already said it a gazillion times, but Storm is also my favorite character!

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    • Storm is amazing.

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    • So did Breeze kill Cub Fire, the fox cub?

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    • Who are Fox-Mist’s pups?? They are never mentioned after she escapes except “being pregnant.”

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    • Not sure. I'd love to see her fight on Storm's behalf.

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    • I do think Breeze killed the fox cub. Also, idk about Fox Mist's pups, but I like to believe that she named one after Storm, like Cub Storm. I think that'd be super cute!

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    • Yeah me too. I think every bad thing that happened was Breeze’s doing. That sounds cute!! Maybe they will make an appearance in TFB even though I highly doubt it.

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      Yeah me too. I think every bad thing that happened was Breeze’s doing. That sounds cute!! Maybe they will make an appearance in TFB even though I highly doubt it.

      That would be cool!

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    • Kona1377 wrote:

      CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      Yeah me too. I think every bad thing that happened was Breeze’s doing. That sounds cute!! Maybe they will make an appearance in TFB even though I highly doubt it.

      That would be cool!

      For sure!!

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    • I hope we see Fox Mist. How come Sweet and Lucky believe she'd intentionally harm Breeze in cold blood, when she wouldn't even harm a random fox that she was ordered to scar? I think it'd be nice if Fox Mist came Storm's side in payback for saving her.

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    • I don't know. She wouldn't kill her brother, the dog who had attacked her and wanted to watch her die. Why would she harm Breeze, a Packmate?

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    • It’s discrimination. I like that the Erins brought the trouble with Dobermans and other more aggressive dogs in the real world to Survivors. It’s sad that happens though, Storm is so loyal!

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    • Yes. Like pitbulls, and rottweilers. I just don't understand though. The very best behaved dog I'd ever met was a pit bull.

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      It’s discrimination. I like that the Erins brought the trouble with Dobermans and other more aggressive dogs in the real world to Survivors. It’s sad that happens though, Storm is so loyal!

      I like that they are addressing these issues

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    • I can't believe people still believe that these dogs are naturally bad. Like, we live in a world where these things are literally proven to be false. And of course there are always a few wackos that refuse to believe debunked theories, but the amount of people who still think this was is concerning.

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    • Yes like the Flat Earth Society people. Anyway, I guess most people are afraid of more aggressive dogs because unfortunately quite a bit aren’t raised right. But I have known tons of sweet bulldogs and pitbulls who are the best. It just depends on how they are raised. I honestly don’t know if I would own one, but they aren’t naturally mean, it’s the way humans treat them.

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    • My dog is a big rottweiler-mutt and is one of the sweetest scaredy-cats I've ever seen, and my neighbors have a super friendly pitbull. Honestly I've never met and aggressive dog like that before, but maybe I'm just lucky.

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    • In fact, I remember back when I was really young and there was a random pitbull at the park, and my older brother (who was only like seven at the time) was telling me that they were the most aggressive breed, but he was mostly just chilling and minding his own business. 

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    • Applebaby12 wrote:
      In fact, I remember back when I was really young and there was a random pitbull at the park, and my older brother (who was only like seven at the time) was telling me that they were the most aggressive breed, but he was mostly just chilling and minding his own business. 

      My dad is extremely afraid of pit bulls, but all the ones that I've met are some of the sweetest dogs ever!

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    • Pit bulls and breeds like them are very misunderstood.

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    • Of course, I totally understand if you're scared of a certain breed due to past experiences, but hating them just because you heard that sometimes pitbulls attack people is kind of sad. We actually saw an adorable brindle pitbull puppy at the lake, he was so friendly and squirmy!

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    • I saw one yesterday at the dog park, and it was so scared and shy!

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    • We have a neighbor behind us who kept Rottweilers in tiny kennels in a fenced in yard. They had a male for several years, then bought a female. The female had puppies, and then they sold the male and the puppies. The female lives in her cage most of the time, never brought inside, and occasionally the high school kid who lives there will come out and play with it or feed it. We have called animal control but they just don’t care. The dog is sweet despite how it’s treated. It makes me sad hearing it cry and bark all day.

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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      We have a neighbor behind us who kept Rottweilers in tiny kennels in a fenced in yard. They had a male for several years, then bought a female. The female had puppies, and then they sold the male and the puppies. The female lives in her cage most of the time, never brought inside, and occasionally the high school kid who lives there will come out and play with it or feed it. We have called animal control but they just don’t care. The dog is sweet despite how it’s treated. It makes me sad hearing it cry and bark all day.

      Omg...😢 Just the other day, I told my dad that dobermans are my favorite dogs and that I want to get one, my dad was like are you CRAZY?! I tried to explain that they are misunderstood and how they act depends on how you raise them, but my dad wouldn't hear any of it.

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    • I know. My dad had a slight thing against pitbull until our neighbors got Penelope and saw how sweet she is! We have a cat who had been kept in a kennel all her life because their young child would hurt her, and she was a lot of psychological neurological issues due to that. She never learned how to climb trees or run around much or even wash herself properly. We actually brought home a kitten last October to see if it would help and it really has been beneficial, she's now able to wash thoroughly and do cat-like things. Didn't mean to go on a tangent, I just wanted to point out the damage kenneling animals for long periods of time can do (of course, kennels aren't bad for dogs but keeping them locked up for days on end is awful.) I feel so bad for the poor dog, that is literally animal abuse. If someone kept a child locked in a room and only took it out to eat or play for a short while every so often I'd bet child protective services would care a whole lot more. Don't get a pet if you can't take care of it. It's that simple.

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    • We brought home a kitten last December. For a while I hadn't been a huge fan of cats because my neighbor's cat had jumped on me, but we had volunteered at a humane society summer of 2017 and it really changed how I thought.

      Although it is a bit different, you can't exactly compare children to dogs, I see your point. Animals are a responsibility.

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    • Well, I thought it was more of a fair comparison since a child's room is bigger and more enriched than a kennel in the freezing cold or unbearable heat outside, but still cruel. I compare children to dogs because it's highly frowned upon having children without being responsible whereas most people are A-okay with people who treat dogs and cats poorly.

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    • Yes I hate how people treat animals sometimes! My mom follows a kill shelter on Facebook who rescued some dogs recently from a horrible breeding situation. They had a Yorkie, Maltese, and Shih Tzus, then some dachshunds. My mom and me both loved these two long haired males named Willie Wonka and Mojo. I already own a dog, but rescuing them from being possibly put down... I have already vowed that my first dog will be a rescue dog, and any other animals I have. Like horses from slaughterhouses. Once a stray was wandering our neighborhood, and I was taking my dog out in our yard. I heard panting behind me, and the stray was right there, watching us. He looked like a Jack Russell mix and he didn’t chase us as a raced for the house. I hope that he was adopted, because animal control picked him up last June and we kinda forgot about him.

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    • Ahhh these stories are so sad and also good. Especially about your cat! We almost adopted an elderly Lhasa Apso named Jasper. But my dog was weird about him and we were also unsure. I believe someone adopted him.

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    • One of my dogs was a runt. We were going to adopt her sister, but they asked if we would take both, since she was so small and no one wanted her, and she was missing a leg.

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    • Aww!! I’m so glad you adopted her!

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    • And you, adopting dogs. Right now we're looking at getting a female French Mastiff. She's expecting right now, but not many people take older breeding dogs. We'd spay her and then have her live out the rest of her life as a house dog instead of a breeding dog.

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    • I used to have a pet rabbit named Kona (hence the username). My friend's grandma was out taking a walk in the woods by the river, and she saw a rabbit floating in a cage on the river close to the bank. She ended up fishing her out of the river and bringing her home. Later, since she didn't want her, we adopted her.

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    • Why would anyone do that? Is it really that hard to drop your unwanted pet off at an animal shelter- or like, anywhere that isn't a river?

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    • In Texas, my mother told me it’s a problem. Ranchers see animals as livestock, produce, and if one gets injured or old they often just dump it. That means animals like cattle, dogs, cats, you name it. It’s sad and kill shelters must exist. I wish we could stop puppy mills because they are so cruel.

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    • Puppy mills (and animal mills in general) make me sick. Those animals forced to breed over and over again will likely never know what it's like to have a real life, and that makes me so sad...

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    • Then they live in those awful conditions and are often shot when they cannot breed anymore. It makes me sick.

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    • People have no respect for animals, even though they make them money. Pets aren't property to be mass produced in a factory. They're living things.

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    • Shot, drowned, beaten, hung, starved, or buried alive is how most puppy mill dogs are unable to breed.

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    • Ugh that’s disgusting!!

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    • That literally makes me sick. I can't believe people STILL think it's okay to do this to other living beings. If you could hang a dog, purposefully starve it to death or bury it alive and feel no remorse or empathy, that's borderline psychopathy.

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    • Applebaby12 wrote:
      That literally makes me sick. I can't believe people STILL think it's okay to do this to other living beings. If you could hang a dog, purposefully starve it to death or bury it alive and feel no remorse or empathy, that's borderline psychopathy.

      Animals are living creatures!!! They have feelings and emotions!!! Ugh!! Those people!!!!!!!

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    • If there IS a third series, I sincerely hope it's based around Storm in Arrow and Bella's pack, and how she interacts with the Leashed Dogs and Wolves(& if she finds love :^) . That does consider the results of the sixth, and final book of The Gathering Darkness series. This is definetly my favorite Erin Hunter book ideas, over even Warriors lol

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    • Yes. Although it is very unlikely, I would like to see Storm in Bella and Arrow's Pack, or maybe a Super Edition focused on Nip or Scramble.

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    • I think the Wild Pack and Bella and Arrow's Pack are gonna merge in the next book, and either Sweet and Lucky learn to be good leaders or someone else takes their spot (personally I'd love to see Twitch as Alpha, though idk who his Beta would be.)

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    • Twitch as Alpha with Snap as his Beta, or maybe even Storm?

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    • How do you know it's the final survivors series overall?? Can you provide Erin Hunter explicitly saying so, please?

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    • Because it says so on the Final Battle's page.

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    • An actual Erin's words, is what I mean, the page is only a part of fandom, I believe? 

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    • It is taken directly from what Gillian has stated. And this Fandom's pages are all cited.

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    • On The Final Battle's blurb, it states that it is "The final epic novel" or something along those lines.

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    • Which is taken directly from HarperCollins.

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    • Where- is what I'm asking @storm-in-rain

      because- when I go on the site, it says literally nothing on the about

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    • I can't tell you exactly where, because I don't know, but this Wiki only uses facts on the pages, cited from books and Gillian Phillip, the author. For absolute certainty, you may want to message her on Facebook, though she has been very inactive lately.

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    • There's a thread in the (I think) "General Discussions" forum that it titles something like "TFB Cover and plot summary."

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    • Thank you, I did mean off the wikia, but I realize the wiki is likely controlled by the closest people to the Erins, if not the erins, due to the early release of this cover, but I have messaged Gillian on the deets ;^)

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    • It seems like it was copy/pasted off of a website, I'll look into it though.

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    • I think that Storm may become Alpha of the Wild Pack or another pack, as in Storm of Dogs Lucky mentions that he sees Storm as the Alpha of a pack one day, which could be foreshadowing for what will happen. I also have complicated feelings on whether or not I want the Wild Pack to be united again, or to have Bella and Arrow's Pack separate as their own pack.

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    • I would love Storm as an Alpha, but it would be kind of sudden. I feel like it would take more than one book for her to rise to Alpha status. And she's very young. Who do you think her Beta would be? I think Twitch or Arrow.

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    • I don't think Twitch would be Beta because with that kind of rank he'd probably have to take battle challenges, and Arrow probably wouldn't want a leadership position, or else he would have tried for it before the pack forced him out. And Bella was the Alpha of their small pack in TEJ, not Arrow, but Sweet defeated Bella when they fought in the first series, and I doubt she could beat Lucky either. Out of all of them, I think Snap seems like the most likely candidate for Beta, but I really can't see any of the others as possible Wild Pack leaders, including Storm, besides Sweet and Lucky. They fit the role too well, and Storm is too emotionally driven. She doesn't have the logical, decisive nature that most Alphas probably have (at least the one that Sweet and the half-wolf have/had). While Storm could probably fight Sweet and win, I don't think she'd want to have the responsiblity of an entire pack.

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    • I'm just gonna say- I honestly thought both Terror and Storm had rabies, which would explain the 'sleep-walking' to be early stages of her mind deteriorating, as Terror's mouth-foam and seizures is likely a cause of rabies, if not anything else. Storm was clawed and/or bitten by Terror during the battle, where she killed him, and I believe the Erins had a more literal sense with these series, so I was shocked *SPOILERS INCOMING* when I heard Breeze was the perpetrator, as she's impossible to have rabies, as she'd either be dead, or as seize-prone as Terror- so I am honestly confused that Breeze would believe in the 'Fear-Dog' (fever-dreams lol) if she's physically healthy, although it's clear her mental state is past restoration.

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    • Well, you know with Erin Hunter logic... besides, I don't really like the idea of Storm having rabies since she'd probably die as a result. That was an interesting idea, though, and it would've made sense.

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    • Mmshell1197 wrote:
      I don't think Twitch would be Beta because with that kind of rank he'd probably have to take battle challenges, and Arrow probably wouldn't want a leadership position, or else he would have tried for it before the pack forced him out. And Bella was the Alpha of their small pack in TEJ, not Arrow, but Sweet defeated Bella when they fought in the first series, and I doubt she could beat Lucky either. Out of all of them, I think Snap seems like the most likely candidate for Beta, but I really can't see any of the others as possible Wild Pack leaders, including Storm, besides Sweet and Lucky. They fit the role too well, and Storm is too emotionally driven. She doesn't have the logical, decisive nature that most Alphas probably have (at least the one that Sweet and the half-wolf have/had). While Storm could probably fight Sweet and win, I don't think she'd want to have the responsiblity of an entire pack.

      Ehh... I kind of think you're giving Sweet too much credit. She SEEMS decisive and calm, but she really doesn't handle the whole traitor situation well and hasn't done much about the discrimination in the Pack, not just towards Storm and Arrow but the rivalry between the original Wild Pack and Terror's former Pack. Rather than addressing the situation she tried to distract everyone with a story, and she never let the Pack properly deal with their anger and issues to the point where nearly half of them left. Also, Arrow wasn't ambitious enough to challenge Sweet, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't accept a Beta position. If Bella was Alpha in their Pack, Arrow would've been Beta then. I think he'd do just fine as second-in-command.

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    • Applebaby12 wrote:
      Mmshell1197 wrote:
      I don't think Twitch would be Beta because with that kind of rank he'd probably have to take battle challenges, and Arrow probably wouldn't want a leadership position, or else he would have tried for it before the pack forced him out. And Bella was the Alpha of their small pack in TEJ, not Arrow, but Sweet defeated Bella when they fought in the first series, and I doubt she could beat Lucky either. Out of all of them, I think Snap seems like the most likely candidate for Beta, but I really can't see any of the others as possible Wild Pack leaders, including Storm, besides Sweet and Lucky. They fit the role too well, and Storm is too emotionally driven. She doesn't have the logical, decisive nature that most Alphas probably have (at least the one that Sweet and the half-wolf have/had). While Storm could probably fight Sweet and win, I don't think she'd want to have the responsiblity of an entire pack.
      Ehh... I kind of think you're giving Sweet too much credit. She SEEMS decisive and calm, but she really doesn't handle the whole traitor situation well and hasn't done much about the discrimination in the Pack, not just towards Storm and Arrow but the rivalry between the original Wild Pack and Terror's former Pack. Rather than addressing the situation she tried to distract everyone with a story, and she never let the Pack properly deal with their anger and issues to the point where nearly half of them left. Also, Arrow wasn't ambitious enough to challenge Sweet, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't accept a Beta position. If Bella was Alpha in their Pack, Arrow would've been Beta then. I think he'd do just fine as second-in-command.

      I believe Sweet does have a calm and decisive mindset, even if her actual decisions are occasionally wrong. She didn't react to every situation with uncontrollable fury and conflict, at least. Every decision she made was always final in her eyes, unless some dog managed to persuade her afterwards (which was not usually the case). I also don't think Arrow would want to become Beta of the Wild Pack if it was offered to him, even if Bella somehow got to be the Alpha. Arrow is more of a laid-back personality than an authoritarian. To help my point, in the first series Sweet had asked Moon if she wanted to challenge her for the position of Beta when Fiery challenged the old Alpha because she was Fiery's mate, and she declined. So the Alpha and Beta of a Pack are apparently not always mates, even if they are the opposite gender. Even though Betas don't have to make all the decisions most of the time like Alphas, I think Arrow is more happy taking orders than ever having to worry about giving them out to an entire Pack. But I guess if he and Bella were the only actually capable dogs to be the leaders, he'd probably accept the position. Just only if he felt he had no choice.

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    • Applebaby12 wrote:
      Well, you know with Erin Hunter logic... besides, I don't really like the idea of Storm having rabies since she'd probably die as a result. That was an interesting idea, though, and it would've made sense.
      l also considered the possibility of Terror having rabies, but when dogs of his pack were explaining why they didn't want to bowl to the moon, it was implied that Terror had been running the pack for months at least, and he definitely would have died from rabies if he actually had it. He may have just had some kind of genetic disorder that caused the seizures, unless it really was the Fear-Dog. 
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    • Mmshell1197 wrote:
      Applebaby12 wrote:
      Mmshell1197 wrote:
      I don't think Twitch would be Beta because with that kind of rank he'd probably have to take battle challenges, and Arrow probably wouldn't want a leadership position, or else he would have tried for it before the pack forced him out. And Bella was the Alpha of their small pack in TEJ, not Arrow, but Sweet defeated Bella when they fought in the first series, and I doubt she could beat Lucky either. Out of all of them, I think Snap seems like the most likely candidate for Beta, but I really can't see any of the others as possible Wild Pack leaders, including Storm, besides Sweet and Lucky. They fit the role too well, and Storm is too emotionally driven. She doesn't have the logical, decisive nature that most Alphas probably have (at least the one that Sweet and the half-wolf have/had). While Storm could probably fight Sweet and win, I don't think she'd want to have the responsiblity of an entire pack.
      Ehh... I kind of think you're giving Sweet too much credit. She SEEMS decisive and calm, but she really doesn't handle the whole traitor situation well and hasn't done much about the discrimination in the Pack, not just towards Storm and Arrow but the rivalry between the original Wild Pack and Terror's former Pack. Rather than addressing the situation she tried to distract everyone with a story, and she never let the Pack properly deal with their anger and issues to the point where nearly half of them left. Also, Arrow wasn't ambitious enough to challenge Sweet, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't accept a Beta position. If Bella was Alpha in their Pack, Arrow would've been Beta then. I think he'd do just fine as second-in-command.
      I believe Sweet does have a calm and decisive mindset, even if her actual decisions are occasionally wrong. She didn't react to every situation with uncontrollable fury and conflict, at least. Every decision she made was always final in her eyes, unless some dog managed to persuade her afterwards (which was not usually the case). I also don't think Arrow would want to become Beta of the Wild Pack if it was offered to him, even if Bella somehow got to be the Alpha. Arrow is more of a laid-back personality than an authoritarian. To help my point, in the first series Sweet had asked Moon if she wanted to challenge her for the position of Beta when Fiery challenged the old Alpha because she was Fiery's mate, and she declined. So the Alpha and Beta of a Pack are apparently not always mates, even if they are the opposite gender. Even though Betas don't have to make all the decisions most of the time like Alphas, I think Arrow is more happy taking orders than ever having to worry about giving them out to an entire Pack. But I guess if he and Bella were the only actually capable dogs to be the leaders, he'd probably accept the position. Just only if he felt he had no choice.

      That's the problem, though. Sweet refuses to let others question her decisions and is very stubborn, probably because she's unstable herself. She doesn't let the other dogs get a word in, and sometimes even acts like the Half-Wolf. She's desperate to prove herself as authoritative and goes too far. And she does lose her temper, yelling at her Pack when they bring up issues or begin to fight rather than actually dealing with the issues. Having a strong, confident leader is important, but being unwavering and refusing to listen to others is totally different. And Lucky just lets her.

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    • I think that before the pups, Lucky and Sweet were decent leaders, but after the pups, I feel like their leadership started going down. Imagine being Sweet and having to make decisions where you have your pups counting on you, Storm and Breeze expecting you to be on their sides when both of them you both trust (or used to trust), your pack counting on you.... also you are conscious of the fact that you were not a good leader since so much of your former packmates have left....... that's a lot of stress!! I know I would never be able to handle that, yes Sweet has not been the best leader recently, though I truly think she was trying her best. All the times that she didn't properly address issues, I think she was putting it off to give herself time to think it through and make the right decisions for her pack, but, unfortunately, sometimes she took too long to make decisions and dogs ended up leaving the pack. 

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    • I think the Final Battle will be the finale to the whole Survivors series. (including more novellas or super editions). But I'm still sad to see it go.

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    • Yes, but my point is, Sweet isn't as confident of a leader as she tries to be, and could do better. The Alpha and Beta in Moon's Pack had pups and were able to handle it better.

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    • Applebaby12 wrote:
      Yes, but my point is, Sweet isn't as confident of a leader as she tries to be, and could do better. The Alpha and Beta in Moon's Pack had pups and were able to handle it better.

      Very true

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    • Here's something I want to say; I don't think Storm should have pups. I like the idea of her having a mate, but Storm would want to be free, not stuck as a mother, based on what she's said (And I do know she wasn't exactly for having a mate in the past either, but I feel like she'd probably change her mind to see a dog genuinely supportive of her and not mean to her, unlike her former pack). A lot of people in real life also have relationships where they don't have children, and it'd be a lovely change. I imagine some leashed dogs are incapable of having pups, given pets are frequently neutered, so perhaps she could end up with a leashed dog. Just what I'd like to see, anyway.

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    • I don't really want Storm to have pups either. She just seems too young and... well, she's not a dog I could ever imagine being a mother. Snap and Mickey haven't had pups, and I think Storm would go down that route too. I find it interesting that neither Arrow nor Bella were fixed- of course, the Longpaws might have left during the Big-Growl before it was time for Arrow (or maybe they just didnt neuter their dogs, but it seems like that would result in the Fierce-dogs breeding a lot more.) But it is curious to me that Bella was not spayed. Anyways, I digress, but I agree. She just isn't the mother type, at least until she's a good lot older.

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    • I think Storm as a good mother - raising her pups to appreciate all dogs, but I see her as good with a mate but not being a mother. It could also be that she isn’t fertile, similar to how Squirrelflight in Warriors was supposedly “barren.”

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    • She's not too young though. Storm IS an adult. She just doesn't want any pups. And she shouldn't ever have any. A lot of women in real life don't want children while others do. In Warriors, pretty much every female character had kits if they had a mate. I like the idea of Storm having a mate but no pups.

      I mean, she desires to be free and hunt. Having pups would keep her trapped in a den with them all day watching them. She'd need a free-spirited mate who doesn't want pups either, is loyal, and values her, not caring about her Fierce Dog origin.

      And yeah; she could either be infertile, or perhaps her mate could be neutered from being a pet, as I suggested.

      And yes, Storm wouldn't be a bad mother, but remember how pups tend to overwhelm her, too. They're too dependent for her to deal with constantly. She'd treat them well I'm sure, but I just don't think she'd want any.

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    • I want Storm to have a mate, since I feel like she needs that constant love from someone. Martha died, and Lucky and Mickey both have their own families, Bella and Arrow love her but they also have their own families, also her own family died, so I feel like she needs someone to love her. Finally, I would want Storm to have pups one day, just not now. I feel like she hasn't grown up to that yet.

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    • I just don't. I mean, taking care of pups constantly would make her unable to hunt and patrol. She would get stir-crazy from staying with pups a lot, and I don't think she'd want to pressure it all on their father.  And I don't think she'll grow out of that; it just seems to be part of who she is. I just like the idea of her being a free-spirit with a mate so she can keep her independence. I think that's how she'd be happiest; a lot of people are that way, too.

      I do agree though that she needs that love and support. She hasn't had any for a long time. And Lucky...ever since he became Beta, he honestly grew less caring. Is it just me, or am I noticing that? I mean, (spoilers for The Gathering Darkness), he tried to force her to injure a pregnant fox. He used to be the nice guy not liking to see anyone get hurt. He's just not loving to Storm anymore. Mickey, Bella, and Arrow are the only characters that really act like they care about her at all.

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    • There's been an obvious change in Lucky. In the first series he was determined to prove Storm wasn't uncontrollably Fierce and evil. Now he's willing to believe that she killed Bruno and Whisper. It's just so sad.

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    • It really is sad. Honestly, Lucky and Sweet are just getting more and more like their old Alpha.

      I saw a post that Sweet is a good leader and Storm wouldn't be, and I disagree. While Storm can have a temper at times, it is really GOOD she is driven by emotions a bit. I mean, Sweet punished a dog she even BELIEVED to be innocent. If she actually believed that Moon did it, that would be different. The same issue with the pregnant fox, (Fox-Mist, was it?) She was clearly not the threat, but they wanted unnessessary violence, and even punished Storm and Mickey for being peaceful about it later. Sweet is too cold, and she's done hardly anything to stop the racism against Fierce-Dogs, which is why Arrow and Bella ended up leaving. Storm can think pretty logically at times, but those emotions she have are what makes her good, too. She has a strong sense of justice. If she was an Alpha, she wouldn't tolerate her pack being mean to each other for something as pointless as their breed, and she wouldn't punish anything unless she actually believed it did something wrong.

      And as someone pointed out, yeah Sweet does get angry at times. And she and Lucky tend to lash at the wrong people (or, dogs). Just my thoughts. I think Storm would be a decent Alpha. No Alpha would be 100% perfect, but she has the right heart for it. She's not afraid to stand up when someone's doing wrong. And even if she's vicious, she doesn't blame the wrong dogs.

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    • Being Beta and becoming a father changes people, or dogs in this situation. I honestly think Lucky is stressed and is pushing Storm away. I understand that as Beta, he has to explore all options, so turning down Storm would just make the Pack angry and seem kind of unfair if he thought her as guilty just because he raised her. But I also think he went way overboard on it.

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      • not guilty (excuse me!)
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    • CarouselcrazyOwl wrote:
      Being Beta and becoming a father changes people, or dogs in this situation. I honestly think Lucky is stressed and is pushing Storm away. I understand that as Beta, he has to explore all options, so turning down Storm would just make the Pack angry and seem kind of unfair if he thought her as guilty just because he raised her. But I also think he went way overboard on it.

      While that is true and I get that, and I agree he went overboard with it, I would like to point out pretty much everyone is stressed now in this series. Storm is very stressed too; no one really likes her. No one trusts her. Except Bella and Arrow. And it's not just because he raised her, either. She disobeyed when she was ordered to injure a pregnant fox because she felt it was immoral. If she won't injure that, why would she kill Whisper and Bruno, and hurt many others? Including killing a fox cub? He knows all of this. And the pack is always angry. Nothing is under control. What about when she killed Terror and Blade? She's constantly proving herself. Even her act of disobedience was for the right reason. He'd have a lot of reasons to view her as not guily. And if it seems unfair to the pack, they should realize their own false judgements are unfair. So, he had a choice to seem unfair but do the right thing, or seem unfair and do the wrong thing, and he chose the latter. It's pretty screwed up. And I'm sure Alpha had his reasons for doing things, too. So did Blade.

      But yes, you are correct. That seems to be his psychology behind it.

      Wow, Lucky sure did change from the gentle character he was in the first few books. 

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    • I agree. It's all very well that he's stressed and has an excuse, but that doesn't help the Pack. There can be good leaders, as proven by Moon's parents. An Alpha and Beta are SUPPOSED to be able to handle stress and still make a good decision. It says in TEJ how Lucky is refusing to believe that Breeze is the traitor for selfish reasons, that he's too scared to admit that they've been supporting a traitor. He chooses Storm because it's easiest to convince his Pack, who are already suspicious of Storm, that she's guilty rather than their trusted Packmate. He doesn't want to deal with it. He can't deal with it, which makes him a bad Beta.

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    • Exactly! Thank you. An Alpha and Beta do have a very stressing and difficult role, but they have to face the truth. It's wrong to blame the wrong dogs and ignore the truth. And I agree, I really liked Moon's parents from what I remember. And they also had a lot of stress. If memory serves, many dogs were dying of sickness there. While there is no such thing as a perfect leader, there are better leaders in this series.

      Honestly, I wonder what would have happened if Fiery was leader. He seemed to handle stress a lot better, if I recall correctly.

      A leader can't take the easy way out. Besides, denying the truth makes things much worse, especially when it involves who is a murderer. 

      Lucky may have his reasons, but that doesn't mean they're the right reasons. He'll deny the truth even when it's obvious, which is really bad.

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